Lessons Learned: Returning to School as a Working Parent
This week on Unstoppable Stories, the UMGC Podcast, host Lauren Cardillo talks with Mike Hill, author and UMGC alumnus, about his inspiring journey of personal and professional growth. Mike reflects on why he dropped out of college to pursue his tech career and how UMGC’s supportive resources and dynamic professors helped him successfully transition back into the classroom, enabling him to excel, both academically and personally. He shares the pivotal moments of his journey, including balancing family responsibilities, overcoming challenges, and the impact of sobriety on his path forward. Mike also offers his advice for others considering a return to education. Tune in for an engaging conversation filled with perseverance, humility, and practical insights for achieving your goals–no matter where you are on your journey.
Episode Information
Mike Hill:
Sobriety is the foundation for basically my whole life. Getting sober gave me the opportunity to go live the life that I was missing, whether it be due to closed mindedness or just my actions, you know, as, as a result of drinking. But it was the first step in a bunch of sequences, right? Like I got sober in 2008. I got married in 2010. My son was born in 2012. Three days later, I ran the first marathon, second marathon, 2014 college, 2016, but it all connects back to. Set a goal and achieve it.
Intro:
Welcome to the UMGC podcast, unstoppable stories with your host, Lauren Cardillo.
Lauren Cardillo:
Today I'm joined by Mike Hill, a UMGC grad. Two time marathon finisher, author, a whole boatload of things. Welcome, Mike. Thank you for being here.
Mike Hill:
Thank you for having me.
Lauren Cardillo:
So, the last time we saw you, sort of recently, was Grad Walk, and you had on sandals and shorts. I remember it vividly. Tell me about why you did that and what that day was like.
Mike Hill:
So that day was one of the best days of my life. Um, I went to the graduation ceremony with my two children, did my grad walk, you know, just told my kids like, you know, Hey, this is what, this is, this is one way to finish college as a, as an older, you know, person. Um, but it's still a crucial milestone in life to, you know, to be able to come do this. So, um, and you know, I'm super grateful that I, that I got to go there and show my kids that and, you know, just have a, have a great day.
Lauren Cardillo:
So why the sandals though?
Mike Hill:
Um, so I wanted to basically. Continue the trend of how I got through UMGC, which was in shorts and flip flops, uh, on my own time, whether it was in the evening or any time of day or night, um, I'd been remote due to the pandemic happening earlier that year. So, you know, again, I spent 99 percent of my life in flip flops, so I bought some new Olukai flip flops specifically for that day and wore them out.
Lauren Cardillo:
Going back to the wall behind you. The two marathons. Tell me what the marathons sort of gave you in the sense of a plan or a strategy.
Mike Hill:
So I always tell people running a marathon was, for me, it unlocked the key to life, right? And that is with enough planning. You can do anything and, you know, the marathon, I did it at 40 years old, just to see if I could do it. I had set myself a goal. You're turning 40. Let's get in shape. Let's run the Marine Corps marathon. And, you know, as I was going through the journey, I think I put on like 800 miles in the, in the year from January until the marathon. And I was like, finally chiseled. I was like mentally prepared. And then I got out on the race and about halfway through the race, one of my knees gave out. So I was in excruciating pain and I ran over to the side of the course. And I picked up like a road marker, right? Like a piece of, you know, plastic tape, cinched my knee down, kept going another couple of miles. The other knee went out, did the same thing. I remember at mile 25, I was, it was starting to sink in like, Hey, you're really, you're going to do this. Right? And then when I crossed the finish line. It was that moment of clarity. I'm like, wow, you really can do anything. Like, this is a metaphor for life. Not just running a race. It's like, um, that was 2012. the 2nd, 1, the 1st year about a month after I joined Geico, um, I was on a challenge to run for 365 days. And somebody approached me and said, Hey, we've got a bib for the Marine Corps marathon. Do you want it? I was like, yeah, why not? Like, let's do it. And to me, that was just to make sure the first time wasn't a fluke. Um, and then two years later, it's, it's again, one thing leads to another, right? Two years later is when I went back to school and I was like, Oh, piece of cake, like get up at 5.00 AM and run a couple miles, like get up at 5.00 AM and write and read and, you know, stay up late. So it was just. Refocusing that energy that I learned from marathon run into school is the way I look at it.
Lauren Cardillo:
Yeah. So it's not just, it's not just a race, it's, or a running. It actually had other implications for you.
Mike Hill:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's, again, it's, like I said, it's, it's, to me it reinforced set small goals, you know, achieve them and then do it over and over, right? The goals get higher, right? Like, okay, run three miles, run five miles, run 10 miles. Okay. Take a 100 level course, take a 300 level course, take a capstone, like, make Dean's List, like, all those things, right, like, those were, I was like, wow, this is a blast, and I'm talking about college, not the writing piece.
Lauren Cardillo:
And then, here, prop, you wrote a book.
Mike Hill:
Yes, I did. Um, I got the inspiration for that in, I'm trying to think, can you remember, 2018 or 2019? Uh, I was working for Geico at the time and we had an internal design summit and I was asked to, to, I was asked to present on how I presented because I was known at the company as somebody who was always very calm, was very focused on how he presented and people, my team had received very direct feedback. Like, Hey, we love when Mike presents to us. Um, and one of my colleagues just casually said, you should totally write a book, Mike, and I've kept that in the back of my mind. I said, let me finish school and then I'll do it. So, as timing would have it, I happen to finish school during a pandemic. So, uh, hopefully Geico doesn't listen to this, but for the last 6 months at Geico, they had reallocated a big part of my team to support COVID related efforts. So they told me, they said, you know, I said, well, what do you guys want me to do? And they said, well, aren't you, aren't you close to finishing school? Like, why don't you just double down on schoolwork? And I was like, okay, so knocked it out. And then the next job that I got when I left Geico, again, I was fully remote supporting COVID related efforts as a government consultant, and I had tons and tons of time on my hands. So that was what led me to write the book. It actually just went to press this past spring. So that's a couple years to go from like idea and spark to copyright to writing and creative and all that piece. Um, but it's out there. Um, you know, I get those small revenue, uh, or what are they called? Uh, royalty checks from Amazon. So I, it's not a bestseller by any means, but people that have read it have told me they've all enjoyed it and felt they, they got something out of it. So that's all.
Lauren Cardillo:
I mean, I read it and I was like, okay, I need to think about the way I present things, you know, like your, your list of things like don't drink caffeine before don't do this, you know, like, you know, look between the seats. I mean, it was, I thought it was very good at just sort of making you rethink how you. Yes. How you, how you do things. So I, I enjoyed it. Um, one of the other things you mentioned, uh, in our like research was that it was also on your mind to get sober. Like I don't know if that was a conscious decision or you were like, it just happened, but that also shaped how you went forward in life.
Mike Hill:
Absolutely. Yeah. So get a sobriety. As I've always shared, you know, is the foundation for basically my whole life, right? Like, getting silver gave me the opportunity to go live the life that I was missing, whether it be due to close mindedness or just my actions, you know, as a result of drinking, whatever that was, but it was the 1st step in a bunch of sequences, right? Like, I got sober in 2008. I got married in 2010. We had our daughter in 2010 did a, I'm sorry, my son was born in 2012. 3 days later, I ran the 1st marathon 2nd marathon 2014 college 2016. so you can see it's a, it's a progression. It's over and over and it's doing all these things, but it all connects back to set a goal and achieve it. Right? And for me. The first goal was, you know, put being a menace to yourself and to others and get sober. You know, when you, when I look back and put all those points together, it's, it's funny how it, the story that it tells, like you really can overcome a lot of things.
Lauren Cardillo:
But what, what brought you to that point where you said, I need to make a change and go forward, you know, because that sounds easy, but
Mike Hill:
yeah, I mean, so for me, it was really, you know, the beginning of. You know, self reflection, right? Like, who do I want to be as an adult? What do I want to be remembered for in life? Do I want to be remembered as somebody who just, you know, slid by or didn't do the best? Uh, no. And I was given the opportunity to get sober. I took that and explored it to its fullest, right? And I heard all the cliches of I got sober, I went back to school, I did this and this, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. A couple of years later, I found myself doing that same thing. Like, I went back to school as an adult. I got a degree and I was like, like, how does this work? Um, and it's funny now as a parent sharing these things with my kids, they're almost at the age where they're going to start exploring, you know, drinking or other things. And it's very funny now to have that perspective as someone who's. Been on both sides of the coin and, you know, I, again, I just try to model, like, here's how, here's how we live. Here's how I live. Here's who I am as your father. Try to be part of the solution, you know, coaching little league, uh, all kinds of fun stuff, taking, taking everyone here and there for the cooking for their friends, taking them places, uh, you know, but again. Sobriety is, was the foundation, like, without that, none of this stuff would have happened.
Lauren Cardillo:
So if, if the guy who was not sober saw the guy today who has done all these things, what would that guy think? What would that guy think of your journey?
Mike Hill:
Uh, hopefully he'll be pretty impressed. Um, I know I like to look, again, I don't look back too often, but when I do, I'm like, wow, I really have come a long ways. I have advanced myself way beyond my expectations, right? Like when I was 20, I was working full time. I was going to college part time and I was kind of, you know, blurring the lines. Like I would go to basketball games. I would go to fraternity parties with my friends who were living that life and I never, I never was interested or at least I didn't see the value in getting an education. It took me years later to figure that out. And now that I have it, I wish I would have gotten it earlier. But, uh, you know, like I said earlier, I'm here.
Lauren Cardillo:
And, and your path wouldn't have been the same if you had gotten, you know, so unless you have a twin who went the opposite way, you don't know. So for a goal oriented guy. What's the next big goal?
Mike Hill:
Um, what is the next big goal? That is a good question. I am, I need to get back to a good personal health baseline. So I'm older, I'm a little slower, I'm a little fatter now because I have chosen to not run as much as possible. Um, but you know, there's, you pay for things, right? Like are my clothes a little too snug? Probably. Is my cholesterol probably too high? I'm going to find out next week at my annual physical. Um, but I know that it's within my reach, right? Just like going back to school. If I choose to start running, I've got the equipment. I've got the, you know, the mindset. I know exactly what I need to do and it's just a matter of doing it. So that is my goal is to for 2025 is to resume running. Um, my friend is turning 50, he said he may want to consider doing a 50 miler and I told him on Sunday, I said, I'll, I'll do it with you, like, let's go. So that is, that is one of my short term goals.
Lauren Cardillo:
I love that. Has he, has he run before or he's just going to run into, he's just going to start with a 50 miler.
Mike Hill:
Yeah, yeah. So in, uh, in my book, uh, that picture of, of the group of us running the marathon. He's the tallest person in the photo. So he was my, he was my guru. Basically, he, he's the one who indoctrinated me into all things running. Like what kind of socks to wear? What kind of shoes eat this? Don't eat that. Like we ran the first 10 miles of the race together. So, you know, by all means, I consider him my running guru. Um, but he, like I said, he's turning 50 and that's his, his challenge to himself. So I'm like, let's go, let's, let's do it, man.
Lauren Cardillo:
I remember you, uh, speaking of 50, I remember you also saying you had 50 or 51 first cousins. You are, like you said, you originally had gone to UMD.
Mike Hill:
Yes.
Lauren Cardillo:
Why, why did you leave 30 years ago?
Mike Hill:
Sure. So that was, um, it's a, it's very funny. I'll, I'll tell you a whole story that connects around that. So I was a print journalism major at the University of Maryland, College Park from 1992 to 1998. During that time, the college launched their first online initiative. Um, at the time, it was called the Maryland News Net, and our goal was to cover Annapolis and use our reporting bureaus that we had on campus, and we were going to publish their content online. So, I used to go to school at Maryland part time. I work full time for USA Today. Um, I was in a print production role, and I had access to our newsrooms, you know, all of our senior leadership. So they were unofficially my mentors. Um, in the early nineties, the internet happened, right? The internet came online and I watched several of my mentors go and start USA today.com. And I was like, I totally want to do this. I want to learn what this is. Um, through, you know, just through life happening, um, I had, I was going through a divorce at the time in 1998, and I had the opportunity to relocate to the San Francisco Bay Area, which in my mind was the Mecca of being a web geek. So, I went to my dean, um, who's now president of Pacific University. His name is Christopher Callahan. And I, I said, Dean Callahan, I said, I've got this opportunity to relocate to the West Coast. I'm going to drop out of college and go be a web guy. And he, I remember this conversation vividly because he told me, he said, Mike, I have no doubt you're going to be successful. He's like, you're going to make, you know, money hand over fist without question, but he said, you're going to want this degree at some point in your life. Maybe not now, maybe not 5 years, maybe not 10 years, but you're going to hit the ceiling eventually. And he said, this is why I'm encouraging you to stay and finish. But he said, I know you've, you know, you've made your mind up and, you know, you're out. Um, so fast forward after I graduated, um, G. C. I actually hadn't remained in contact with my former dean. And then I said, I, I kept what you told me, you know, at 1 of our last conversations to heart and I said, I want you to know that I finished and you were absolutely right. I did hit the proverbial ceiling. And I went back to UMGC and knocked it out and he wrote back, you know, we converse every so often, but he was like, I couldn't be more proud of you. You know, this is great to hear this, you know, this type of success story. Um, so, you know, that was it. But I, would I have stayed, who knows, but did I finish now?
Lauren Cardillo:
Yes, I did. How much more did you have to go?
Mike Hill:
Um, I think I left with like, I had 80 credit hours. As an undergrad, and then when I went to um, G. C. I think almost all of them were still valid. If I remember in the, in the audit process, and then I applied for what was it? Like, the life equivalency? I can't remember what the exact course was, but I remember I petitioned for roughly, like, 6 classes worth of credit hours. So if, to me, that helped out tremendously, I'm like, okay, I can do this. And, you know, I think, uh, undergraduate advising said, you know, Hey, we typically advise like two to three courses. And I'm like, well, yeah, but I have the knowledge in the background for like most of my major. So I'm going to do this.
Lauren Cardillo:
So tell us what you're doing now with your degree.
Mike Hill:
Yeah. What am I doing now? So I, since I got my degree, I have. But, you know, again, everybody wants to know the, the money part, the compensation. I, I walked out of my current job. I used to work for Geico. They are the ones who paid for me to go back and finish my degree at and there were no strings attached. I didn't owe them any sort of service or time and I quit right as I got my degree, right? As I graduated and walked out the door, got like a 30 K raids. Took a couple more bumps and, you know, kept myself going, um, you know, up the up the compensation ladder, but that's only a small part of it right now. I'm part of the Lowe's digital experience team, so I work for Lowe's dot com, the big hardware store that you see all throughout the country. I've been there for too little over 2 years. And I've had the opportunity to design all kinds of cool things that, you know, help you shop. So if you've shopped for a refrigerator lately, or you've, you know, bought an appliance, you've probably used something that I helped design. And, you know, there's, there's nothing more fun than, than that. Um, I, I lead different teams, you know, I was hired to kind of be the glue to, to hold them together and really grow and, you know, just help designers be better designers. The people that I work with at Lowe's are, you know, You know, I like to think that they're an extension of me, right? Like we're all very forward looking. We're young, we're optimistic and we love what we do. Um, and you know, I always credit in the back of my mind, there's no direct correlation, like that my degree corresponded with what I'm doing, but it opened the door to get me here. Like it was just one more thing to show, Oh, this guy is very serious about his career, his education, his personal goals. You know, when people, when I get the chance to meet new teams, they're like, what is all this stuff behind you? I'm like, this is my life, you know, my diploma, marathon medals, toys.
Lauren Cardillo:
I know you knew you had to go back to school, but when you actually went, you know, how, how hard was it? How terrifying on a certain level was it?
Mike Hill:
Oh, so on a scale of one to 10, it was an 11. So I was petrified. I'm not gonna lie to you. Uh, I have not been in school. I went back in 2016. So that's almost, that's like what, 25 years? Well, that's over 25 years. Um, and I was like, how's this gonna work? Like, I, I had two young children at the time I was working full time. So the, the stereotypical, you know, older, older adult go back to school and when I met with undergraduate advising and they outlined the degree program that I was going for, it sounded very easy. Um, and they reassured me that all the online tools, the online student portal, They said, you'll see, it's, it's really well designed and you'll be able to incorporate this into your life. Like, no matter how hectic or busy you are, you will find that the tools that UMGC gives you are going to help you immensely. They were right. Um, I did, I did have to get over my, my huge fear of math. I, I will admit I do not like math at all. I was like, why do you think I studied journalism? I don't want to know math. And I remember offering college as an undergrad, I'm like, can I just pay for the course equivalency? Like, I don't want to take these math courses. And they're like, no, that's not the way it works. Um, but math was one of the last things I tackled. And I remember all the, whatever it was, the LMS, the lab, et cetera, to help me overcome this. And, you know, once I got there, then it was on to the capstone and, you know, closing out the, the. The experience, but, uh, it was super, super positive. There's, I can't say enough about going back as a, as an older professional and older student.
Lauren Cardillo:
Right. And as a design guy, you totally got the design part of it, which I don't know if people think about that a lot when they're just like register for a class, get the class. Right.
Mike Hill:
So it's funny. I remember, you know, over 30 years ago in 1990, when I graduated high school. And going to Montgomery College, right? And having to drive to a physical campus to register in person, like, coming to the Germantown, Maryland campus. Because it was less crowded than the Rockville campus and now it's like, oh, you log on, you select, you know, when is the quarter, you know, all this stuff, which professor, you know, is it virtual? It's an in person and it was super, super easy. But yeah, I totally, totally dug all of the design of everything that offered. I thought it was extremely well designed. Um, I actually recently told my next door neighbor he he's going back and pursuing a degree at UFGC and I told him I said when I was there, it was one of the most well designed things I've ever used. And I said, log in, you'll see. And he was like, Hey, you're totally right, man. It really is well designed. I was like, there we go.
Lauren Cardillo:
Well, I think, and let's not classify ourselves as older, but older people have sort of a stigma about, I don't get the technology. So,
Mike Hill:
yeah, yeah. And you know, that's something, that's something I carry as a designer, right? Like, you know, designing for accessibility and, you know, whether that's, you know, vision based, like I can't see or. I'm older, right? There's always something to be accounted for. And I thought that the UMGC student portal just nailed everything, right? Like it was very task driven. It wasn't fluffy and overly, you know, overly welcoming. It was very, very much. Here's what you need to do. You need to read this. You need to do this discussion and you need to turn this in by XX day. And I was like, this is, this is right up my alley. Like, you know, one day read. Tuesday discussion Wednesday start my individual assignment for the week or group project or both and then turn it in checkpoints reviews, you know, and then submission by Sunday or Monday, whatever that, you know, whatever that date was.
Lauren Cardillo:
At this point, your, your kids weren't that old. What did they think of dad going to school? And he's going to school in the house, you know, what was their sort of take on it?
Mike Hill:
So I mean, it's, it's ironic because the pandemic happened right in 2020 and then they all had to do school from home. Um, but you know, they never, they never really questioned me about it. They're older now. So, uh, my oldest, my daughter is an eighth grader. And my son is two years behind her. He's in sixth grade. And so now, you know, they understand the value of knuckling down and doing all their homework and their schoolwork. And, you know, my daughter is now starting to ask like, Hey daddy, you know, what was it like when you went back to school? And, you know, you, what did you do? You quit 30 years ago and then you went back and I told her, I'm like, yeah, you know, we're, we're trying to get your mother. And I are trying to give you the opportunity to. Finish high school and go to college, right? We don't want you to have, like, yes, your mother went the traditional route, high school, college. Your father? Me did not. So we're just trying to give you a different, you know, you've seen how, how it works. You don't wanna work yourself into the ground like I did. You know, this is why we advocate for you to do your homework, go to bed and study.
Lauren Cardillo:
So you're trying, you, you sort of modeled good behavior, but then on another level you're like, don't do what I did
Mike Hill:
Uh, we, we've been very honest. We've told our daughter, you know, Hey, you know, you can go either way, but it gets a lot harder because the stakes, you know, again, I had two kids. I had you guys. So I'm taking you to school and picking you up and doing everything that a parent does and at the same time carving out time to study like it was Looking back. I'm like, how did I do this? Like, oh, yeah, I just I did it
Lauren Cardillo:
I don't think I've ever met your wife, but you know, she took the more traditional route She had a kid three days later. You run a marathon how supportive has she been, you know to you achieving things
Mike Hill:
a million percent So no, I would not so she actually was one of the people She was the biggest person in my life. We met in 2007 and, you know, as we got to know each other, one of her first questions was, you know, Oh, you know, would you study in school? And I told her, I said, I'm a college dropout. And she said, you know, you really should go back and finish. And she echoed throughout our relationship. You really should go back and finish. You really should go back and finish. Um, so, you know, aside from getting sober, my wife is my number number two. She's my number one person in my entire life because she was there for me. You know, the divide and conquer of parenting, you know, Hey, I got the kids, do you need to go study for a while? You need to go right. Yeah, I can feed the kids, get them bathed, whatever it is. So super, super supportive, um, you know, and like I said, I could not have done any of it without her.
Lauren Cardillo:
It's great. So is there a, is there a drive for you to do something more education wise? Are you thinking?
Mike Hill:
So I have approached Lowe's and told them, um, so I actually am in the process of applying for a director role and. I'm not sure if there are any educational considerations with that, but I have told them if you'd like me to go get a master's in human factors, I would be open to doing that. You feel that that would benefit our team or me as a leader, you know, in the future. So we'll see. We'll see where it goes.
Lauren Cardillo:
Okay. I'm going to ask the non techie question. What are human factors?
Mike Hill:
Human factors. So basically the team that designed the UMGC portal, right? Like everything is focused around Students being able to, you know, manage their courses and do everything. So somebody with a human factors background help design and define all that. Right. Because, you know, again, you and I, if we were to go say, Hey, let's design this, the student portal. We may have two totally different perspectives and what winds up getting out there is something confusing or, you know, poorly designed, but human factors focuses on solving. What the user of the site needs the most and helping make sure that that comes through in thoughtful design, you know, clean layout, easy to understand content and just overall aesthetically pleasing
Lauren Cardillo:
got it. So, it sort of sets the parameters for how the person's going to use it.
Mike Hill:
Yes. Yeah, it's everything. It's like design research content. Um, strategy, uh, you know, and again, an understanding of people, how do people use sites? All right. Is it something they're doing on their phone? Which by the way, I can't remember how, how well the student portal was on my phone. I think I do remember using it a few times, but I was always browser based, web based. So
Lauren Cardillo:
if someone's, if someone is watching or listening to this. And a sort of you 20 years earlier, what would be your advice when they're thinking about trying to go back to school?
Mike Hill:
I would say number one is go talk to advising, right? Like ask them what it's going to be like as a day to day, you know, what, what their data, what they can expect in their day to day, right? What is the level of commitment needed? To get yourself through college, right? And, you know, just, just relax, right? Like, I know it's going to feel stressful. It's going to feel like, wow, the whole 1st step that 1st course, like, what am I getting into? But just go with the process, right? Like, you know, the, the, there have been. I'm sure, I don't know how many students graduate UMGC every year, but there's a reason that there are probably hundreds of thousands of them because it's effective and it works. And again, it's just like life, right? If you pour yourself into something, you're going to get something back out of it. Just take the first step and do it.
Lauren Cardillo:
Mike, thanks so much for joining us today on Unstoppable Stories. Loved hearing your stories and you know, how inspiring they were. And for our listeners and our viewers, if you'd like to watch more Unstoppable Stories, please like and subscribe. Until next time, see you then.
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